Up Fuel Last year I sold my Netbook Reviews website in a deal worth over $100,000 and I discussed how to sell a high end website in my post sale blog post. In that post I mentioned why I used a website broker to extract more value from the sale of my website property. The main reason why I prefer to use a website broker for higher income generating websites is because they have access to a higher level clientele than the typical Flippa buyer (aka people and companies with a lot more money than you and I). They don’t want to sift through piles of garbage listings to find the gold nuggets, so that’s why they use a broker to act as a filter. The broker’s then typically charge buyers 10% of the sale price.
2014 Update: Since first publishing this article back in 2011 Flippa’s gotten a lot better for higher end website sales. Hope my complaining helped. See this comment from Flippa here:
Table Of Contents
Why Flippa Is Not The Best Place For Selling $100,000+ Websites: Example
In my blog post from last year I said that I knew that my website sold for more than it would have on Flippa.com and today I want to show you exactly why I know this to be true courtesy this majestic website currently listed on Flippa – How To Get Rid Of Stuff. Yes I just said majestic to describe this website, because of the sheer simplicity and genius of this website. HowToGetRidOfStuff.com is a simple content website with an article for every type of “how to get rid of” complaint you can think of like (how to get rid of acne, how to get rid of carpet stains etc.) combined together all of the articles help contribute to the 1.7 Million page views per month and over $20,000 per month profit that this website generates (genius right?).
Why This Website Should Not Be Sold On Flippa:
Check out the comments on the website listing and you’ll see the people that are asking questions have spent only a few hundred to a few thousand dollars buying websites on Flippa (only one commenter had spent $51k at the time of posting). Do you think that these “buyers” could even afford to buy a website that’s making more than $20k per month when most of them haven’t even spent half of what this website earns every month?
The seller is wasting his time answering questions from people that could never afford to buy his website. In fact, they’re probably just trying to figure out how they can make a similar website by asking as much information from the seller as possible about how it makes money (After doing an SEMRush search it’s obvious that it just makes money by ranking for various “how to get rid of style articles”.
This is precisely why I chose to not list Netbook Reviews on Flippa.com
How Flippa Could Combat These Problems:
I don’t want to be seen as hating on Flippa without offering my advice on how to fix the problems, so if you’re listening Flippa (first don’t get pissed at me, I still love you) but here is my advice:
Solution 1. Hire your own team of website brokers to handle these higher end clients with $100,000+ plus websites (or at least set the bar at $500,000+ websites).
Solution 2. If you don’t want to hire your own team of brokers, than just flip these listings to existing brokers to sell them on your behalf for a cut of the commission. Admit you can’t service the high end of the market at this time or more eloquently tell buyers that you can help them extract more for their listings via one of the partner brokers.
Solution 3. Here’s another solution – allow the people that list their websites to keep the listings available to only Flippa buyers who’ve spent $X of money on Flippa. This final solution probably won’t really work well because there probably aren’t enough buyers who would meet the criteria to see these premium listings (not enough yet at least).
I still really appreciate what Flippa is doing for the market because the more people that get into buying and selling websites the better valuations I can get on my own websites. Eventually the higher end investors will make their way into the market in much larger numbers and they’ll bring along some more money to invest as well.
I still recommend Flippa as a great place to sell websites under the $100k mark I just think things could be better for the higher end sales.
Want To Learn More About Buying And Selling Websites?
If you’re on my newsletter stay tuned for some cool news for those of you that want to learn more about how to really buy and sell websites. As I’ve said before, I will be opening an in depth coaching program on how to buy and sell websites. I partnered with a team of website brokers who’ve sold millions of dollars worth of websites to help create the content and to help with the live coaching webinars we plan to do for members. We’re opening that up this month and it will be much more hands on and step by step focused than anything else I’ve done so we will have an open / close date.
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PS. Let me know what else you’d like to hear about my public website purchase case study. I’ve already covered how I bought the website, my plans to increase the income and then how I more than tripled the income. I still have more work to put into improving that website but what else would you like to know?
Hi Chris, that sounds like good advice. Maybe what flippa needs is a competitor that offers a better service? Thanks to your 10 day course I have made my first effort to purchase someone elses website. No news yet but I think you are on the right track creating a course regarding website purchases. Especially if they have already done the hard yards to get a good ranking without any thought of monetization.
Thanks again,
David
Hey David,
I don’t think that another competitor can come along and displace Flippa. They handle the lower end well, my online complaint is that they don’t to the upper end as well as I’d like.
Chris
I agree with your analysis of Flippa not being the best place to sell a high end website. Why don’t you start a niche site that caters to selling high end websites? Your existing relationships with brokers would help a lot in that venture, I guess.
I’ve thought of something like that, but the high end deals are most often done with companies and high net worth individuals that the brokers have had years to build relationships and repertoire with. That and I prefer doing my own thing more so than selling for others.
Hey Chris,
I just sold my first website on Flippa as sort of a test run for some of my higher priced sites. And although I didn’t expect to get much for it anyway, I am very surprised at the number websites with seemingly fake revenue claims (based on the tools I use to evaluate them), with literally no traffic being reported by Compete, Alexa and the like; sell for way more than this established, verifiable one.
https://flippa.com/auctions/2647281
The sales price barely covered the fees. But like I said, I didn’t expect a whole lot.
I like the idea of brokers, but my only concern is giving them insight into untapped niches, and risking building up more competition before they are able to sell it, driving down the price.
Whereas selling on a site like Flippa, I can set it for 7 days, which is hardly enough time to build up any new competition for myself.
Have any comforting thoughts on that?
Using a broker they’re more commonly selling larger sites earning thousands of dollars a month and these brokers most often don’t spend a lot of their time developing their own sites. I’d be more concerned about listing on Flippa where people (such as myself) use Flippa to come up with ideas for websites to build anyway.
It wasn’t the brokers themselves I was concerned too much about, it was the potential buyers they are telling about the sites when they are trying to help you sell them…
Obviously a brokerage was huge help for selling Netbook Reviews, and because of your advice, it’s definitely something I’m going to consider as I start to unload some of my higher priced websites.
Yah, well that’s the other thing. Is that most brokers are talking to people that have a lot more money and are subsequently less likely to spend their time trying to build a copy cat website than the others.
I never sold an website on flippa though I had the opportunity a couple of times, I ended up selling to existing clients for a little less though you never know…
Next time I will surely use flippa no doubt about it, seen lots of good reviews on the matter.
Flippa isn’t bad don’t get my wrong, the point of this post was to just say that it’s not always the best place.
I’m at the other end right now, looking to buy my first website (I created and run multiple websites now, but this will be my first purchase).
I think maybe the listing should be open to all no matter how much they have spent, but maybe the questions should be limited to people that have spent x amount, but even then if I want to buy your site and I’ve never used Flippa you may miss out on a sale.
I think most brokers will monitor Flippa anyways, so I think the best thing to do is just not answer any questions you are afraid will give away your secrets.
Well, my point is that people (like me) sometimes use Flippa to determine which niches are profitable and what to move into. If I’m showing off my $20k per month earning website and some dude that doesn’t even have $10k to spend on a website is asking me detailed questions about traffic reports and income reports that is a problem.
I agree with that 100%
Hi Chris,
Nice post on Flippa.I have not use Flippa but after reading your post I am interested in trying it.Thanks for sharing your information about it and it helpful alot of readers especially those who are new in this field.
Yeah, I figured as much, but it never hearts to be cautious.
I’d like to see Flippa get rid of all those crappy pre-made PLR websites that list for $150 that stop investors from taking real listings seriously.
Thanks Chris for this eye-opening post on Flippa.I have not use Flippa so far but I consider about using it .Thanks for sharing all these information with us.
Nick
I’ve ended up on howtogetridofstuff.com via google search, and I certainly agree that the webmasters should take a different course than Flippa.
What’s ironic about this is that Flippa has now increased the cap on the success fee by 400%, from $500 to $2,000, which affects high end websites. Meaning more money in Flippa’s pocket, less in seller’s, with no additional service provided. Personally I don’t think there are enough buyers on Flippa to warrant the fees they charge in the first place, now they want an extra piece of the pie when overall less than 50% of sites get sold — high or low end — and sellers are not getting top dollar either. Just cause you got a $40,000 website doesn’t mean it’s all profit that anyone can just demand more fees ($2,000+) from because of the higher dollar amount involved. I don’t think Flippa’s business model can continue to work the way they are going and sellers probably are just better off keeping and working on their sites, and sell them at top dollar elsewhere.
Going to one particular website broker without any analysis is just a foolish act… very nice post regarding this
Very good information. Although Flippa is the dominant selling venue, I think it will e challenged soon. It is sellin more and more low hanging fruit.
I’ve just joined Flippa as the senior product manager, and I’d really like to understand this issue further with you all. Please feel free to contact me about your ideas on how we can make flippa the best place for you to transact.
Specifically around a higher level broker service, please check out https://flippa.com/dealflow. We created this service for exactly the reason you’ve outlined in this post. Take a look – try it out! we’d love to hear what you think.
we have tried to implement some filters on search so you don’t get the turnkey sites. Some buyers want those sites, and others are looking for more established sites, and the filters allow you to do that. You can also filter in the niche you are interested in and save the search so you can be notified when new sites come up that meet your criteria.
Hey Mark, I should update the post. But basically yes the tire kickers / people that don’t have nearly enough money to even buy a high end website shouldn’t be able to see the listings or even post on them because they’re just wasting the time of the higher end website owners.
Most of the time, i am just using flipppa to find a value domains to buy then flip it for a great deal in several months later. Though selling back is abit hard but of course, i have my own list of targeted buyers which i could save some bucks on flippa fee while i could do another scale on the same niche again.
Thanks Chris – we’re thinking of changing what we allow newbie buyers to do on the site, so that’s a great suggestion to restrict what they can see.
blogger – I love that you’ve found value in flippa to build a list of buyers, but not so much that you don’t sell back with us to get the best price for your site when you flip it. Is the scale of buyers on flippa not enough value? If I understand the thread its about the quality of buyer? is that right? what would it take to bring you back to flippa when you sell?
More about quality of buyer. But frankly I’m more of a buyer and not a seller and I like to buy outside of traditional marketplaces.
Mate just because someone only has $278 dollars in sales showing on their flippa profile it doesn’t mean they cant afford to buy that said site. Its like when you walk into an expensive shop in London with a baseball cap and trainers on, they don’t think you can afford to buy their products because you don’t look the part. Just because someone isn’t dressed up like money doesn’t meant they don’t have the money my friend and you’d be naive to think that and could loose out on a potential sale. Are you saying that you’re not earning enough god damned profit you fat cat to take 1 minute of your time replying to someone who asked a question about your site? Are you so big now that you are above these normal everyday people that you once was as well? What happened to treating everyone as equals?
Mike.
Mike: I’m just saying that if I owned a 7 figure website I’d only want to be showing it to qualified buyers. There’s a difference between having a store front that anyone can walk into and see fixed prices on goods vs showing someone very secretive (potentially damaging) information about the inner workings of their business. You’re making a HUGE apples and oranges comparison. So huge I can’t even see how you came to the above conclusion.
Even still: Why would I want to waste my time answering questions from someone that can’t afford to buy my website? If I (as a potential buyer) can’t afford a website out of my price range I’m not going to waste the sellers time with my questions.
It’s not a matter of equality between people. It’s entirely a matter of not wanting to lift up the skirt on a business for the whole world to see when that knowledge can potentially damage the business owner / bring on unnecessary increased competition etc.
Brokers usually do this vetting of buyers so that not everyone in the world can see “oh look, this website is making $XXX,XXX per month and here’s how they are doing it” but on Flippa anyone can see (unless it’s via DealFlow which wasn’t available at the time I wrote this post). Ultimately this is why websites – scratch that – businesses that end up selling for high 6 figures and 7 figures are typically done behind closed doors.
I’m offended by your misplaced outrage at me.
EDIT: Also just because someone has $278 in their Flippa profile – DOES – likely prove that they can’t afford a 7 figure website. Why would someone with a lot of money (as in 7 figure+ net worth) waste their time buying a piece of crap website for $278? They wouldn’t. Unless in the small likelihood they were an idiot.
Chris
Even I don’t agree with you Chris Guthrie. I am a newbie there and wanted to buy a site worth $800. There was a site with BID price as $600. I just messaged him some doubts to buy it with BID. I mentioned I am going to buy his site for $600 the next day. You know what happened instantly, he changed the price to $850 when I refreshed the page. It was of much inhuman and I guess people look out for money. I thought that he will be able to help me out with the site but instead he did it. When buyers are like this, why would you even blame the sellers there. No one is perfect. And the flippa manager should not have said that they will be restricting newbies. Any one with million dollars can also enter to buy a site of his/her own interest. So better not to insult any group.
Hey Chris,
I know this is a rather old post but thought I would chime in as I have recently been doing some digging on what people think of Flippa vs. website brokers. I have been involved in this industry since the mid 2000’s and used Sitepoint before Flippa was even spun off so I’m very familiar with the company as a whole.
I agree entirely with your original article in regards to the lack of quality buyers present on Flippa. It has started to feel much like Digital Point back in 2005-2008 with very few quality sites and even a few cases of fraud happening because of buyers using Paypal rather than Escrow.
Flippa has actually attempted to move into the high end sales by launching their ‘Deal Flow’. However, It’s just a broker that left another agency that they picked up to run their operations. The worst part about this is Flippas “screening process” for high end buyers is so easily gamed that essentially anyone who asks to view those listings can. Along with the fact that these ‘Flippa brokers/employees” don’t make any effort to make personal relationships with any of these buyers It’s very doubtful they will have any serial buyers who will repeat acquisitions after their first time. Flippa actually approached me asking ‘how they could improve their process’ and essentially leaked data out of me, stripped myself and all other brokers of their tags on the site, and launched Deal Flow off the information we provided. If you can’t beat em, join em…err…ban ’em!
I am obviously biased when I say this as I own a brokerage company myself but I feel having a personal and very close relationship with both the buyer and seller is very key in all acquisitions, not just web properties. I feel every deal we have ever completed was not only because of our quality listings but also the relationship and trust we have with all our buyers and sellers. How can someone be willing to shell out $500k-$5m without trust! We pride ourselves on that, and that’s something I highly doubt Flippa will ever be able to match us or other boutique web brokers in.
Logan Abner
Founder, WeBrokr
Hello Logan & Chris ,
I’ve been trying to find a low end website to purchase from a trusted broker. I really need a list of trusted brokers that sell low-end websites ( $3,000 – $10,000 ). I don’t trust flippa at all. Most of the sites on there are listed by scam artist. Would you happen to have a list of low-end website brokers ?
I don’t know a ton of low end brokers but a show I spoke at last year (RhodiumWeekend.com) is all about buying / selling and a lot of brokers go there. You could look at their site and look at the speakers etc.
Buying a website is a risky job especially if the investment is big. My first experience was a big fail. So after some time spent on Flippa I found out about a site called Safe Site Buying which I heard that was created by super sellers from flippa and got a coupon code “ssb20” which was supposed to give me a huge 25% discount. This deal looked pretty good to me so I tried it. They provided me with a full report, 20 pages long and with their own subjective opinion. They were very helpful. When you want to spend more than $2-3000 on a website this service is a must if you ask me.
These days I won’t spend less than $25,000+ for a website. Ultimately as your business grows the only way you can go to the next level is to try and keep going bigger and bigger. I started at under $10,000 then moved to $10,000 plus.
Max these days is probably $100,000
Chris how are you, reading thru these posts and comments and I wanted to ask you if I should sell my site on Flippa circa April 2016. As before I hit that button to add the features on Flippa I want sure I am not wasting my time with that site. Any suggestions on how I can go and list my site using a site or broker (dont even know where to find a broker) …. My site is clubpsd.com also selling 5x5flyers.com …My #’s and profit margin are great
Flippa is a good spot for sub $100k websites in my opinion. There are other places too like EmpireFlippers.com as well.
I guess the price increase was alright only if they could have provided a good live customer support, Their support is so slow, you have to wait days to sort out issues. Its bad with such a pathetic support, they have guts to increase the pricing.
People are already searching for an alternative of flippa but flippa has a monopoly in this field not because they are good but there is no one who can build a new flippa . Though i found one site who is claiming to build the smartest marketplace for buying and selling Websites/Domains (Trademysite.com) , and having a look at their insta and twitter profile it seems like they are building something Awesome under the radar.